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Featured Sick Emporer Angel

Discussion in 'Help and Advice' started by Chris CLK320, Oct 27, 2010.

  1. Chris CLK320

    Chris CLK320 Registered

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    My tank has been maturing now for nearly a year with a pair of clowns and the clean up crew. It wasnt a complete ly new tank it was an upgrade from a Rio180 to a Perc 120. Its been great looks really nice so I thought I would get that trophy fish, I always wanted an Emp. Angel but former tank was no way big enough.

    Anyway he was introduced about a week ago and has been feeding really well on brine shrimp and mysis the he started sitting in one of the overhamgs in the rocks and not feeding.

    Today he is wedged in a crevice alive but not moving.

    Perameters are stable
    Amonia 0
    Nitrate 0
    Phos very low 0.18
    Salinity 1.026
    tempo 78

    every thing seems normal and other live stock seems fine. Water changes 20l every 2-4 weeks my RO runs a DI and is at 0ppm

    This isnt the first time I tried a Powder Blue, too early in my opinion but the same happend.

    I am now assuming I lose the angel ver reluctant to get any mor e fish until I know what I am doing wrong.

    I have been doing this for 10 years now and cant for the life of me think what I am doing wrong, but I have to say being honest my track record of keeping fish other than Perc Clowns and damsels hasnt been great.

    I am at the end of my tether as I dont want to harm any more fish but love the hobby.

    Is there somewhere I can send my water for proper analysis to see if theer is anything in the water?

    Any help suggestions are always gartefully received.

    Yours very depressed Chris
     
  2. Ged

    Ged Registered

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    How big is the tank as a matter of interest?
     
  3. Chris CLK320

    Chris CLK320 Registered

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    its a perc 120 so its a 4x2x2 less the rear chambers about 100g in volume.
     
  4. Ged

    Ged Registered

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    As for the health of the fish I have absolutely no idea as to what would be causing it, but imo 20l water change every 2 / 4 weeks is no where near good enough to keep on top of the quality. I only have a 75g tank (3x2x2) and I change 40 ltrs per week without fail.

    With a tank your size there is no reason as to why you cannot successfully keep any type of reasonably sized fish.

    Do you run carbon?

    Do you test for Mg, Calc and KH at all?

    Apart from that all out of ideas, hope the fish is OK but if not don't give up there has to be a logical answer somewhere.
     
  5. NEMOnDORI

    NEMOnDORI Registered

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    anything bothering it?
     
  6. Chris CLK320

    Chris CLK320 Registered

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    TBH I always found that increasing water changes resulted in algal blooms. the regime I have at the moment the tank seems very stable ir little or no algae and my Chaeto in my Hang on sump grows fine.

    I dont run carbon- This might remove any toxins I cannot test for??

    I dont test for calcium and MG and KH as its a live rock and fish only havent risked corals yet. However the polups and few fans seem ok that have come in on the rock.

    I will try adding some carbon and do a large water change.

    Thanks for comments.

    Chris
     
  7. Chris CLK320

    Chris CLK320 Registered

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    No the clowns seem to be well behaved I havent seen any form of agression. The angle seems very calm. I should add he is a juvinile one about 2 inches long.
     
  8. Ged

    Ged Registered

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    afaik Clowns and damsels are about the hardiest fish you can get. The fact that you can keep them quite happily, could suggest that your water quality is not quite up to scratch (please don't take that the wrong way)

    When you get more expensive fish, they demand better water quality and are not quite as forgiving, but saying that, your water maybe spot on for all I know.

    I would defo up the water changes, and also add the carbon, as that will reduce toxins etc - Killi has done a great article on Carbon here.

    Hopefully the fish will pull through, but if not then I don't really know what else to suggest. Losing any fish is bad enough, but it seems harder when you don't actually know why you lost them.
     
  9. Chris CLK320

    Chris CLK320 Registered

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    You are right, but I am so sure my water is ok. Yes Clowns and damsels are hardy and adapt to poor water quality.

    I have just added a sock of activated carbon and will do a water change in the morning.

    Thanks for all the advice.

    Chris
     
  10. NEMOnDORI

    NEMOnDORI Registered

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    can i see a pic i have never seem one before apart from pics on google image but never ever seen it in my lfs
     
  11. Chris CLK320

    Chris CLK320 Registered

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    Bit late sadly it has died. He was a juvinile one so blue and white.- I am Gutted.

    I have run a few more water tests
    So perameters as of this morning are
    Temp 76
    SG 1.022
    Nitrite 0 untraceable
    Ammonia 0 Untraceable
    Phosphate 0.08 mg/l P
    Nitrate 0.02

    On Salifert and Rowa test kits.

    Other than too in frequent water changes ie 20lt every 2-4 weeks I cant see anything else for it, might just be unlucky with this one.

    Are there any "school boy" errors ie tests I might have missed, that affect fish health. I e there are mg calcium, strontium etc but arnt these more related to inverts and corals.

    Yours Sadly of Surrey.
     
  12. NEMOnDORI

    NEMOnDORI Registered

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    sorry for that loss maybe it was just shocked or stressed i cant really think of anything else
    im sad now :-(
     
  13. Maver1ck

    Maver1ck Registered

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    Hi,

    Sorry to hear about the loss. Its always sad to lose a fish, particularly so soon.

    A couple of thoughts which may or may not have a bearing things:

    1) Did the deceased powder blue and the emporer come from the same LFS ?. The clowns may well have been tank bred, as many percs are but the PB and Emporer will have been wild caught - I realise that cyanide capture is largely a thing of the past these days but if they werent caught and shipped appropriately they may well have already been on the way out before you picked them up. It may be worth trying stock from another LFS ? - especially one which you can establish as getting its stock from somewhere like TMC.

    It is odd that the fish seemed ok, and was feeding but then declined. In the olden days i would definitely have wondered about cyanide capture - typically the fish appeared fine for a few weeks, fed well, but then suddenly went downhill. Like i say this is less likely these days.

    2) look for reasons that might stress the fish enough for it to go into shock. For example both the PB and Emporer are more free swimming than the clowns, tangs in particular need very well oxygenated water - or they gasp for air (watch for rapid or exagerated gill movement). Do you definitely have adequate surface water movement or infusion to create a well oxgyenated environment ?.

    I hope you get the problem sorted out. As per the poster above, i would definitely try running carbon also.

    R.
     
  14. diver 807

    diver 807 Registered

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    the sg should be 1.026 and temp could do with another 2-3 deg
     
  15. Maver1ck

    Maver1ck Registered

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    I have seen these kept down to 1.020 (old school thinking for fish only - the lower the salinity the lower the stress on the fish as they have less work to do to absorb water through osmosis in lower salinity). However I think you make a good point - his parameters are are probably considerably different from the LFS where the fish came from at those readings, so maybe we need to look at the acclimatisation approach used ? i.e. was it too sudden a change which lead to a shock response ?.

    R.
     
  16. Ged

    Ged Registered

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    I think the salinity on the second set of results could be a typo?

    On the first post it is actually 1.026

    http://www.thesaltybox.com/forum/showpost.php?p=636053&postcount=1

    But still a good point about acclimatisation.

    Sorry to hear the fish never made it.
     
  17. killi

    killi Moderator & Jedi Master

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    sorry for the late response ,but as this has happened before lets try and find the problem before you try another fish ,first i need to know your,ph. mag,kh,& calcium levels ?,,,,pete
     
  18. Chris CLK320

    Chris CLK320 Registered

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    Yes Sorry, it was a typo it is 1.026 acclimatisation method

    is 20 mins in the bag in the tank stabilise temperature
    then moving a cup of water out of bag and cup of tank water into the bag every 5 mins for 45 mins. Then in the tank
    lights left off for a good few hours then on and try some food.

    I agree with Killi I dont think its the LFS I think its me!!! So I will get the test kits to test for ph mag kh is 5 and calcium and get back to you

    Thanks for the support
     
  19. PaulW

    PaulW Registered

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    keep your chin up mate
     
  20. NEMOnDORI

    NEMOnDORI Registered

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    what is the size of your tank mate ?
    everyone loses a fish in this hobby its the way we learn from our mistakes i know sound like a headteahcer :)
     
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