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Featured Juwel Trigon 190 and Marine tank setup.

Discussion in 'Help and Advice' started by FmJames, Feb 22, 2010.

  1. rabbut

    rabbut Registered

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    It will be fine to add fish. Flake rotting in a tank will cause a bigger Nitrate spike than the same amount of flake eaten by a fish and, erm... recycled [023.gif] A lot of the energy in a flake is used by the fish to, well, live [001_smile.gif] (sorry, struggling to find the right words to describe what I'm on about tonight)

    For the first couple of months, Nitrate probably will run higher than usual - maybe upto 50ppm if your unlucky, as the bacteria to remove Nitrate take a lot longer to mature than the bacteria that like Ammonia and Nitrite. This is normal and part of the tank maturing. It will eventually drop off once the tank's ran for a while.

    With feeding, go sparing. A pair of Clarkii Clowns will probably only need 4-6 small-ish flakes between them during the course of a day. If you can spread that over 2/3 feeds, that would be better [wink.gif]

    Sorry for not answering your question about Chillers. They aren't things I have any experience with [sad.gif]
     
  2. FmJames

    FmJames Fish Health Advisor

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    Hi Rabbut

    Thank you for all your help. Today I managed to get down to my LFS and get some fish.

    In the end I decided to get a mated pair of True Percula clown fish and they are so cute.

    They just look little bit scared of their own reflection( always hiding in a corner), this is because the background i used was a blue with plastic coating and it reflects like a mirror.

    I tried putting a tiny tiny bit of food for them but they were not interested.

    There was a pair of snowflake clown in there for £270 [001.gif] would of loved a pair(just stunning) but was scared they would die for whatever reason and I would not be very happy, maybe in the distant future when the tank has fully matured.

    I have 50L of water ready just in case nitrate and nitrite level shoot up and I need to do emergency water change.

    I finally have fish :)

    thank you all for the help and advice and a special thank to rabbut, will take pictures and let everyone know how I am getting on with these.
     
  3. FmJames

    FmJames Fish Health Advisor

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    **UPDATE**

    I seem to have slight problem, these clowns have not moved from the top corner of the tank since I put them in there, they just seem to stay in the top right corner and are not eating anything.

    I have put food in there 4 times and nothing. I am scared to feed them anymore because the food is just sitting at the bottom and will cause my nitrates and all the other water parameters to rocket.

    any ideas what is going on with these pair?

    thanks
     
  4. nivarp

    nivarp Registered

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    Mine took a few days to start exploring and they also didn't touch flake. They love brineshrimp thou, might be worth trying some.
     
  5. rabbut

    rabbut Registered

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    Indeed, just settling in still. Give them a few days and they should start to behave "normally" (that's definitely a relative word with clowns) [011.gif]
     
  6. FmJames

    FmJames Fish Health Advisor

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    Hi guys

    Unfortunately the clown are not moving from their position but look pretty healthy otherwise. I have to kinda feed them with hand, just pinch a large flake and hold half and submerge it into the corner they have made their home in and they eat,
    otherwise they would not touch the food and it just floats to the bottom, I tried brine shrimp but it scatters so quickly and they don't bother chase it. What a frustrating pair.

    I wanted to ask about stocking the tank, how quickly should I stock the tank? maybe a clean up crew next and another fish?

    My water is very good, I did a water change yesterday and nitrate, nitrite and ammonia are all zero.

    thanks
     
  7. rabbut

    rabbut Registered

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    Corals add no load to the system to speak of, so you can add as many of those as you like in one go (within reason). Likewise with CUC. With fish however, it's prudent to try and stick to 1/2 a month unless you have a large and/or established tank. [thumbup1.gif]

    Clowns can take a while to settle. Also, some will remain in the higher levels of the tank until they find something to host (Leather coral, Torch coral, Mushrooms, Powerhead. . . ) [001_rolleyes.gif]
     
  8. FmJames

    FmJames Fish Health Advisor

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    Hi all

    quick update and some help.

    tank is now

    2x clownfish
    1x cardinal fish
    5x turbo snails **
    3x crabs
    1xred legged crab(i think) **
    2x cleaner shrimps
    1xfire shrip **

    5 x small coral

    ** = added yesterday

    Unfortunately I had to leave the country for 5 days and left the tank with my friend who kinda over fed them, and now I have this red stuff growing on my sand.
    and also have two types of algae growing in my tank on the glass, one is like grass like and the other is dark brown patches(the snails are eating this). I have kept the feeding to 2x a day but very small amount each time,
    my nitrates have gone up to 25ppm but the rest are ok. I am going to try and syphon the red stuff,clean the algae and cut back feeding.
    Further advice on what i should do to remove or control this algae/red stuff??

    thanks all
     
  9. rabbut

    rabbut Registered

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    I think you already are doing most of the things that you should be doing to fight it. The outbreak is probably Cyno, and should go as suddenly as it came given time [wink.gif]
     
  10. FmJames

    FmJames Fish Health Advisor

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    Unfortunately my cardinal fish died yesterday and one coral died too. I cant figure what killed the cardinal fish? as the clowns and snail and everything else seem fine.

    I did 50L water change and my nitrates are 5-10ppm and phosphates are 0.03-0.1ppm.

    I am thinking that I should increase my rowaphos phosphate remover to cover both compartments of the filter.

    Just wondering at what level of phosphate and nitrate should I start to worry? I am going to do 20L water change every 4 days now for the next 2-3 weeks until all this has gone.

    While syphoning the cyano I swallowed a lot of sand and threw it away, so I have ordered another pack of sand to top up, would this be safe to do right now?

    Could anyone recommend me another kind of fish flake food or fish food in general, as the fish don't seem to really like the fish flakes much.

    thanks rabbut
     
  11. Ged

    Ged Registered

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    I use New Era marine flakes and pellets, all the fish eat them no worries.

    Get some frozen mysis and brineshrimp as well to vary their diet.
     
  12. rabbut

    rabbut Registered

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    Topping up the sand should be safe - just wash it first.

    The levels of Phosphate and Nitrate that start being worrying, really depend upon the corals you are keeping [023.gif]

    For feeding, as per Ged above.

    Sorry to hear you've lost some stock [sad.gif]
     
  13. FmJames

    FmJames Fish Health Advisor

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    Guys need help please.

    I recently added a purple tang (1 week now) to the tank and over the last two days it has gone from a purple to a pale colour and it has white sports everywhere and the fish kinda looks dusty with white specs all over.

    It also has these specs on the fins and tails, actually everywhere except the eyes.

    will try and take a picture tonight. But my guess is marine Ich

    Could anyone advise what I course of action would be most appropriate and what medication would be best??

    I don't have another tank right now to quarantine them, will try and get one tomorrow ASAP. Would the fish be ok like this for a few more days??????

    I really don't need this stress so early on in my tank. Battling with algae was bad enough, but marine ICH is terrible.

    If I quarantine them How big should the tank be for 2 x clowns fish and the tangs and how much/often water changes would be required?

    I have read that I should feed them garlic while they are fighting Ich, how would I go about this, obviously I don't feed them raw garlic. The fish do not seem to eat the flake food but only the brine shrimp.

    any help would be highly appreciated please.

    thank you
     
  14. rabbut

    rabbut Registered

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    Are the spots the size of a grain of salt, or smaller. My concern from that description, is that it would be marine Velvet, rather that White Spot that you are dealing with [023.gif]

    Please could you remind me of your full fish stocking, with associated sizes ATM? This will help in working out the size of the QT tank you require [wink.gif] (Probably in the thread already, but I can't be bothered raeding though 72 posts to find the info [blush.gif] )
     
  15. FmJames

    FmJames Fish Health Advisor

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    Hi rabbut

    I am still trying to take a picture of the fish, it is breathing very fast and not eating at all. I have almost put a whole cube of brine shrimp(soaked in garlic) but the yellow tang eats very well.

    The tank stock is right now,

    1 purple tang ( ~2.5 inch in size)
    1 yellow tang (~3.5 inch in size)
    2 x clown fish.(~2 inch in size)
    4 x corlas
    3 crabs and 1 red leg crab.
    2x cleaner shrimp
    1x fire shrimp.

    I got the tangs about a week ago, put them in together and they have not had a fight even once, they seem to get along very well with each other and always swimming with each other.
    just yesterday these spots/dirt seem to have appeared. They were both not eating yesterday but the yellow tang has recovered somewhat but the purple tang has gone down hill, it looks really bad now.

    I will try and get a picture tonight, by speaking to my LFS they said to try Aqua Medic Exodin so I ordered some but very scared to put medication in the main tank although they assured me it cured their Ich infestation in their main tank which was 2000L i think.

    The spots are a little smaller than a grain of slat, much smaller but are clearly visible. It kinda looks like the picture below, will try and get my own picture tonight with my camera.

    [​IMG]

    The tank is 190L juwel trigon.

    My water parameters are

    ammonia 0ppm
    nitrite 0ppm
    nitrate between 10-25ppm on the salifert test kit, more closer to 10ppm
    ph 8.3
    phosphate 0.03
    salinity 1.026

    any advice would be appreciated because I dont think the purple tang will live very long. I am going to do a 25L water change right now.

    How on earth am I going to catch these fish
     
  16. rabbut

    rabbut Registered

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    For catching, you'll have to take the rock out in all likelyhood...

    White Spot looks like salt. Velvet looks like spots that are just visible. Velvet usually looks worse in certain lights, where as White Spot looks bad regardless in most cases [wink.gif]

    Which ever it is, treatment is the same. Get them into QT, and then either Hyposalinity treat them (my preference as it's more gentle on the fish IME) or dose them with Copper. Maintain treatment until they have been clear of the spots for 2 weeks, and then hold them in QT a further month before moving back to the display. [thumbup1.gif]

    Usually, I suggest leaving the fish in the main tank for a while, with heavy feeding and trying to keep hands out. Often, they'll just clear up on their own. However, the fact that one fish already isn't feeding would suggest you have a really aggressive outbreak on your hands. For this reason, I'm suggesting getting the fish out earlier than I usually would for this issue. [001_smile.gif]

    The speed of the outbreak suggests to me that something has really stressed-up the fish. It could suggest there may be a husbandry issue somewhere, so once you have them underway with treatment, it may be time to start reviewing what went wrong where [sad.gif]

    As for the size of the QT tank, a standard 3X1X1ft would do, as they are all quite small still
     
  17. FmJames

    FmJames Fish Health Advisor

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    Hi rabbut

    I have managed to get a picture and this is what it looks like.

    http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/2107/dsc00301qg.jpg

    Shall I not use the Aqua Medic Exodin?

    also shall I remove ALL my fish into the quarantine or just the two tangs or just the infected tang??

    in regards to the hyposalinity, what would be the recommended salinity you would recommend as i am seeing different suggestions and how fast would you recommend I drop the salinity?

    any tips on where to buy an aquarium with 3x1x1?

    thanks for all you help.
     
  18. FmJames

    FmJames Fish Health Advisor

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    rabbut

    would you recommend that I give the blue tang a fresh water dip for 5 minutes to help with its breathing/eating and then put it back into the main tank again??

    It might take two days before I get a quarantine tank of the dimensions you mentioned.

    thanks
     
  19. rabbut

    rabbut Registered

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    That would be White Spot for sure.

    Fresh Water dips only stress-up the fish more, they don't actually remove the parasite - just the skin that makes the White Spot (the parasite is below the skin, it's the skin that forms the spots). As such it's short-term help for long-term hindrance....

    Any medication is dodgy in the main tank. For this reason, I'd avoid AM Exodin, even though I've never used it personally.

    For Hyposalinity, I'd use a salinity of 1.009 SG. This needs lowering over the course of a week or more.

    As for buying a tank, you'll just have to keep looking and hoping one comes up. Larger would be good also, if you can get a larger one for a good price.

    All fish need treating, not just the ones showing symptoms...
     
  20. Realist

    Realist Registered

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    You may also find that a purple and a yellow in 190L is too much. I would say you're ok for now with the yellow but the purple as well will cause territory issues. If they do not have enough swimming space they will become stressed and I think you would be going round in circles with the WS as the fish get larger.
     
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