I've been bad!

[kaz]

So I was tempted to the dark side and tried Aquaforest on my Reefer 350 in June this year. Oh boy, big mistake. Ended up with zero No3 and Po4 and bingo... cyano diatoms/dinoflagellates (not sure) GHA. Stopped dosing, used Chemiclean to rid the cyano, which worked. Then went lights out and did Dino X for various algae. Has taken around a month, plus a month not dosing anything.

A week later with a 20% water change, Polyfilter, Red Sea carbon and 6 ml Nopox daily. My No3 is around 4ppm and Po4 around 0.04. Today I halved Nopox to 3ml as it looked like last week I had a bacteria bloom. It seems that the hair type algae is back on the rocks and diatom looking brown starting to appear on sand. Lights btw are on blues only for six hours.

Before going to the dark side, I started my Reefer back in January with Red Sea Mature kit etc, but couldn't seem to get the nitrate down. I've only 3 Anthias and feed frozen twice a day. Had to move all my SPS back to old tank as they started STN and RTN. I lost loads. No idea why, all test appeared to be in range, inc potassium. Even did a Salifert silicate test, which came back at zero.

Any ideas what to do next? Po4 has dropped since Nopox, but No3 hasn't moved.

AND YES IM ON THE NAUGHTY STEP! I've learnt my lesson.

 

[RedSeaKev]

Hi Kaz, before we go anywhere can I ask for a picture of your skimate please, this will give me a good idea of what is going on in your system.

 

[kaz]

Not sure how to post pics on this site. It's a light green/brown colour if that's any help. Plus I emptied it about an hour ago. Just tested my No3 and Po4 :

No3 (Red Sea test kit). 4ppm
Po4 (new Hanna phosphorus checker) 33 = 0.101ppm according to conversion chart. I'm assuming this is just over 1ppm. Does that sound right?
Should I use some Rowaphos in a reactor?

 

[RedSeaKev]

Ok, You have said the magic word, GREEN !!! this is for sure a sign of nutrient release when dosing No3Po4-X the following is a simply explanation that I have used for years on many forums.

Nutrient release from live rocks during the early stages of dosing No3Po4-X, a little clarification is needed here.
In the marine environment nitrate and phosphate can precipitate together with calcium over any aragonite lattice (this is why phosphate is bad for coral calcification) during our research into No3Po4-X we have found a lot of Calcium Phosphate and Calcium Nitrate in coral skeletons, Live rock is essentially dead coral skeletons that has fallen from the reef during storms etc, this then gets encrusted in all manner of life (Coralline Algae, sponge, higher algae’s etc) .
We have found a micro environment growing on and in the surface lattice of the live rock, this includes many types of bacterial colonies and many algae’s including the likes of coralline.
Whilst dosing No3Po4-X we see some of these bacterial colonies exchange for others which are fed by the No3Po4-X these then become dominant , we also see these algae’s within the surface of the live rock die off and in doing so they can produce acids which can then dissolve the Calcium Nitrate and Calcium Phosphate trapped in the surface lattice.
This is why we see the colour changes in skimate produced during the early weeks of dosing No3Po4-X, starting at a green to brown thick deposit changing to a light tea colour, this can sometimes even turn to a bright green skimate before reverting to a light tea colour, this is usually followed by the collapse in residual Nitrate content (and the reduction of No3Po4-X dosage) this is then followed by the slow development of a PHB cultures(Phosphate Harbouring Bacteria) which get to work on controlling the Po4 content which can be released in the same manner as the No3, the Po4 takes longer to come under control due to the slow growth rates of the PHB colonies, another reason why efficient protein skimming is essential as the PHB’s utilize the Po4 prior to dying off and being exported via the skimmer.

You can also watch this YouTube video which will also give more information https://youtu.be/dwAAQAW3KgI

 

[kaz]

Thanks Kev.

Can you confirm what amount I dose for around 300 litres? I was doing 6ml but reduced to 3ml yesterday as the water went foggy. I'm running carbon and a Polyfilter and after a 20% w/c last week have reverted back to 10% weekly change. My rock is ceramic and Real Reef Rock, there's only one piece of 'live rock' that went in dead when I started the tank back in January. I assumed the process you are talking about already happened when I did my first 6 months with Nopox. The problem I have now is since I started with Aquaforest. Obviously you can't comment on someone else's product, I just need to know the way forward and what I should do to get back onto the Red Sea method. To be precise, get my algae and nutrient problem solved. Can I use Rowaphos as Po4 is high?
Thanks

 

[RedSeaKev]

Ok, first thing here, you cannot run a polyfilter and dose No3Po4-X it will simply remove certain components of the No3Po4-X, second, what salt are you using ? if it is the Probiotic again do not dose No3Po4-X

You should be able to dose 6 ml of No3Po4-X without issue in 300 litres with an No3 content over 2ppm.

 

[kaz]

Okay, I'll dump the Polyfilter. Had it in there because I used Chemiclean. I'm using Red Sea (blue bucket) salt. Can I use Rowaphos? My Po4 reading is 0.101ppm on Hanna phosphorus checker.