Ich keeps coming back

[peter212693]

Hello,

Most of you will probably have seen my previous thread about my whitespot issue as it got a bit out of hand :whistling:

Anyway I upgraded my tank back in March and after adding my first fish got whitespot and after trying to "ride it out" lost half of my fish but they seemed fine after a 21 day treatment of chloroquine in my DT due to it being FO and using real reef rock rather than live rock.

After adding my remaining stock after a week without any returning spots I fully expected the ich to come back and I had one spot on a couple of fish after another week so I treated the whole tank again for 21 days with chloroquine. After 4 days not spots could be seen and stopped the treatment last Saturday with all fish spot free. A week passed and this weekend I noticed a white spot on the tale of my juvenile tusk but was more of a dull mark than the whitespot I had previously seen. All fish seem fine and eating like pigs so not jumping into another drastic yet.

Current stock is :

2 x clowns
1 x One spot foxface
1 x Yellow Belly Regal Tang
1 x Juvenile Aussie Harlequin Tusk
1 x Copperband Butterfly
1 x Potters Angel
1 x Scarlet Hawkfish

Noticed this morning a single spot now on the top fin of the regal tang so after 2 treatments at 21 days I dont think im clear yet. What im thinking of doing is either:

- Longer treatment of chloroquine 28 / 30 days (Also remove sand while treating)
- Hypo Salinity
- Cuprimine (Also removing sand) as its still FO tank.

Ive added a couple of pictures below, what do you guys think is best action to take as ever since I upgraded ive had issues and its just making me loose interest at the moment. I know I will get the usual response of QT is the only way and a fallow tank but thats just not possible, I know this is the reason why im in the situation but just need advice on treating this in the DT as the tank will most likly stay FO for a good while yet.

Tusk (Mark on tail):



Tang (Spot on top fin):





Copperband (This make on the tail has been there for 2 months and not moved so know this is not whitespot)



Thanks in advance.

 

[Phil077]

Hypo Salinity + copper will increase there anxiety 2 fold. imo
One or the other.

 

[372xp]

Could be the start of lymphocystis due to stress. If so it's not fatal or contagious. Leave them alone and monitor, WS normally accelerates over a couple of days, if these spots are just the odd one here and there it is unlikely to be a parasitic infestation.

 

[peter212693]

Thanks,

Yea im going to just keep an eye on them for now Im just preparing for the worse now as this will be the third time and looks the same as how the previous outbreaks started.

 

[CEECH]

Make sure you feed them well and monitor any fish that are not eating well. The less you do around the tank the less stress that will be on the fish.

 

[peter212693]

How quick will ich progress through its cycle? The spot that was on the tang fin this morning has gone but there is another one now on his side. So this has gone in less than 8 hours... Seem a abit quick for crypt?

 

[372xp]

As I said above lymphocytes. Not every white spot is ich.

 

[peter212693]

Thanks mate, there is one more spot on the other side of the tang and the original seemed more prominent if that makes sense. Tusks mark has gone from its tail.

 

[Phil077]

Thanks mate, there is one more spot on the other side of the tang and the original seemed more prominent if that makes sense. Tusks mark has gone from its tail.

That's good news

 

[peter212693]

Ok checking tonight the tusk is still clear,

Regal now has 5-6 spots on his body

Looks like the potters angel not has 1 spot on his tail.

Looks like what ever it is, presuming crypt is back again and multiplying. Do I wait a bit longer or treat the tank again before it gets worse? All fish are acting and eating normally, no signs of scratching yet.

If im going to treat this has now survived 2 dosed of CP at 10mg/l for 21 days. Do I extend the CP treatment and treat CP again or presume this is not working and treat with cuprimine?

 

[Phil077]

Multiple use of copper can/will damage fish. and stress them more.
Keep an eye on them for now. there all swimming around and eating. its a wait and see.
Cupramine is what I used last year, treated fish to late

 

[peter212693]

Thats what im worried about mate,

First time I was hit with this I waited it out but lost 4 fish but they where really overrun by it. Treated with Chloriquine and the remaining fish lost all their spots within days so ran for 3 weeks.

Came back again on some fish and acted really fast after seeing a few spots, another 21 days of Chloroquine no spots for just over a week and now they are back again.

Like you say repeated treatments are not good (although chloroquine is supposed to not be harsh on fish) but dont want to wait too long again

 

[Phil077]

If it was kill or cure. I Would say copper asap.
But you say fish are eating ok, not scratching etc
Its a tough call. after all there your fish
And we are talking about a lot of money here

 

[peter212693]

Yea not half mate, already lost a lot of stock to this so dont fancy doing that again.

I will see what its like tomorrow night give it another 24 hours. If its multiplied on the regal and potters I will seriously consider treatment if it be copper or CP.

 

[penzo]

I wouldn't wait,you say other fish are spotty so it's spreading, I would treat sooner rather than later,be aware tuskfish don't tolerate copper very well.good luck,hope everything goes okay.

 

[CEECH]

You will never fully remove it. blue tangs are magnets for it. but fish that are eating well and not stressing have a better chance of fighting it off themselves. Treating time after time will lower there self defence as the fish is not fighting the issue but what you are medicating. Its a tough call as it money down the drain each time you lose fish. Everyone has a different view on how to deal with this in a system.I hope it works out for you mate. My advise is go with your gut.

 

[peter212693]

Couple more spots on the potters and tang this morning.

Everything else still clear, all ate and no scratching.

Saying towards treating again as its spreading / multiplying. Removed half my sand bed last night just not sure if to hang on a little longer as I have meds on standby so can act if anyone starts sturggling or go:

- Hypo
- 28 Days Chloroquine
- Copper / Cuprimine at 21 days.

 

[penzo]

You will never fully remove it. blue tangs are magnets for it. but fish that are eating well and not stressing have a better chance of fighting it off themselves. Treating time after time will lower there self defence as the fish is not fighting the issue but what you are medicating. Its a tough call as it money down the drain each time you lose fish. Everyone has a different view on how to deal with this in a system.I hope it works out for you mate. My advise is go with your gut.

I was in lfs, and they say they'll get people ringing for advice saying there's spots on my fish,this perhaps is on a Monday,and they say I'll call Thursday,by that time in some cases its too late,with Peter saying its multiplying,that's why I think better to treat.it's 2 days now and more are appearing.

 

[CEECH]

I was in lfs, and they say they'll get people ringing for advice saying there's spots on my fish,this perhaps is on a Monday,and they say I'll call Thursday,by that time in some cases its too late,with Peter saying its multiplying,that's why I think better to treat.it's 2 days now and more are appearing.

As i said though its a deep matter this. Many different opinions on weather to treat or not go fallow quarentine ect. Early detection is always good and agree to treat sooner rather than later is a good thing. But too much treatment cannot be good for the fish in the longrun. They dont get medicated in the wild. I read food sources are one way they combat such things in the wild. Also some say adding extra vitamins and garlic to foods can help. But as said many different views

 

[steve861uk]

Ruby Reef Kick Ich cured my 5' tank, the white spot never returned and I lost no fish, inverts or corals while using it. Try Google and see what you think?

It kills the Ich in their free swimming stage, which occurs in the cycle of it once in every 7 days (approx. working from memory). I used enough to treat as recommended and continued for another period just to make doubly sure. It was not cheap, but worked for me :w00t: