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Featured DSB in weir?

Discussion in 'Filtration / ULNS' started by Mayo, Dec 20, 2013.

  1. Mayo

    Mayo Registered

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    In a month or two Ill be changing my sumps DSB to Miracle Mud.
    Iv got a 12" x 4" weir with a 10" tall lower stand pipe and it's crossed my mind to setup a new DSB in there.
    My return pumps turn over is about 7000lph.
    Do you think this is a good or bad idea?
    Pro's & cons?
    Is it a big enough area to have an effect on the system?
     
  2. Clearwater

    Clearwater Registered

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    that would take about 5lbs of MM

    59 Sq inches =
    5Lb 1" deep

    don't know if it would work
    TBH you also need to grow Algae as well dor best results

    My Nitrated started to rise above undetectable recently reaching 10 ppm

    the T5 lights failed, to be fair they were 5 years old
    [MENTION=11400]killi[/MENTION] lent me a new light and Nitrates are about 1 ppm in a couple of weeks
     
  3. Mayo

    Mayo Registered

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    I'm thinking of adding a DSB to the weir. I'm changing my DSB in my sump to MM
     
  4. StarfishEnterprise

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    The only down side to a dsb in weir would be its effectiveness, it's a small surface area. Water will be drawn over it just like if in your sump so don't see an issue there.
    You will find though that MM is awesome for reducing nitrates, maybe too good lol I don't think you will need both tbh.
     
  5. Clearwater

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    sorry miss read

    just finished traveling with work slightly brain dead LOL
     
  6. Matt@Epo

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    nice topic, lets thrash this one out. judging by recent threads every member on the forum is keen to get involved.

    IMO a DSB in the weir is a great use of dead space.
    Depending on the flow over the weir you could add courser grain to the top inch of the bed to avoid sand storms.

    You could add/embed pipes (drilled with holes and capped at the bottom end) to allow for direct carbon dosing without worry of hydrophobic products or lights breaking down additives. This will then work similarly to a vodka dosed nitrate reactor, direct feeding the bacteria rather than the global dosing carbon sources to the tank.
    You could add a heat source below the weir as the heat rises it takes a very gentle flow of water, just enough to expose more media to the water column without it turning aerobic.

    I would go with a reasonable sized grain so as not to go anoxic.

    The embeded tubes will also allow for testing the oxygen levels at depth with a probe?
     
  7. StarfishEnterprise

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    would it be worth having a removable cap on the top of the embeded pipes. to help restricting air/light in the sand bed?
     
  8. Matt@Epo

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    you could cap the pipe and leave the redox probe in there to test normal levels.
     
  9. Mayo

    Mayo Registered

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    That's what I thought, it's quite a big space so why not make use of it?
    Good idea. Iv got some course KZ sand that I can throw on top.

    How about if I build a plenum under the DSB supported by the drilled pipes? Kind of like this[​IMG]
    With the tall pipe used for dosing I could add a 1/4 RO tube to syphon water from the top column of the DT and directly feed the plenum with warmer water that will rise up through the sand? (Hope that makes sense)

    2mm grain?
     
  10. Matt@Epo

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    not sure I would syphon water from the DT to the plenum. Denitrifying bacteria will occupy aerobic and anaerobic environments and your DSB should cater for both. The upper layers will already be oxygen rich so feeding oxygen rich water down to the lower levels of the DSB will remove or at best reduce the anaerobic areas.
     
  11. Mayo

    Mayo Registered

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    Yea that's what I as thinking:lol:
    So that's a bad idea then! Do you think if I can manage to make a plenum I should?
    How would you add a heat source to the bottom of the DSB?
     
  12. Matt@Epo

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    I dont think a plenum is hugely neccessary within your proposed size. the idea behind them is to increase anaerobic areas when there isnt the space for a deep sand bed. You'll have 10" or so of sand so IMO the plenum isnt high on your list of requirements.

    The heat source could be simply by positioning your sump light under where the weir is?
     
  13. Colin

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    [MENTION=11463]Clearwater[/MENTION] I thought you had moved on to an LED floodlight?
     
  14. Mayo

    Mayo Registered

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    Ok so I won't do the plenum. Shall I go the full 10"?

    I'm using LEDs as my sump light.

    Shall I think about blacking out the glass on the bottom of the weir?
     

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  15. Matt@Epo

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    sand depth is difficult to comment on in this instance. i wouldnt say what you are doing is cutting edge but it does differ from the norm.
    Each layer of sand will reduce oxygen and I wouldnt suggest you aim for anoxic levels at the bottom. However due to the physical contraints of the DSB you want to make sure you are using more than just the top inch for denitrification.

    Will you be able to control the amount of water cresting over the weir? Denitrifying bacteria populate the detritus on the sand forming a slime coat of sorts, a biofilm. If the water cresting over the top of the weir is turbulent you could add an upper layer of mud to the bed. The turbulent water would turn the mud into a fluidised bed of sorts giving a better barrier layer between the mud and the nutrient rich water. This would make better use of your depth vs water contact areas.
     
  16. Matt@Epo

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    Well thats you ****ed then Hysterical

    Seriously I wouldnt be too concerned with it. It would have been an added bonus if acheivable but i cant think of too many ways that you could implement a heat source that wouldnt bring its own set of issues. If it was an external weir or overflow box then it would have been an easy solution.
     
  17. Clearwater

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    [MENTION=16409]Colin[/MENTION] I did but the cover glass went POP, as I work away I didn't want to take a chance
     
  18. Colin

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    Bad luck, I was going to ask you how you were getting on with the 20W,my 50 is great but it kicks out some heat,I've been thinking of changing but that's for another thread
     
  19. Clearwater

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    Just borrowed a big CFL from Pete looks to be working well, I was looking to reduce heat with LED lights over the sump
     
  20. Colin

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    Don't bother with a 50w LED, too much heat, my set up is pretty much identical to yours and it's only the last few days we have been able to shut the cabinet doors. Going to get a chiller next spring and probably try reducing the sump light as well but I'm loath to as the Chaeto growth is fantastic with the 50W
     
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