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Featured Blue Treasure Salt

Discussion in 'Chemistry' started by brisinger, Jul 7, 2014.

  1. brisinger

    brisinger Registered

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    Has anyone used it? I've come to the point of needing to buy some more salt and wondered what it was like. It seems to be getting some reasonable reviews from a quick google. I tend to use Tropic Marin but wondered what this was like if anyone had any experience.
     
  2. Clearwater

    Clearwater Registered

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    Think it's a new import

    Never come across this Chinese Salt before
     
  3. jas

    jas Registered

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    Items from China tend to lack in quality control. Its been the rumor around the world. And as a person in the pharma industry, the chemicals I've dealt with from them, are extremely variable. So IME, you might get a good batch of salt, or a very bad one. Instant Ocean,red sea pro, tmp,H2O are all solid.
     
  4. Eyore

    Eyore Guest

    how would you class the quality as variable? do elaborate please

    without a doubt when you search for chemicals an extremely high proprtion is chinese. Very little published info on a great many in terms of prices, specs, and coa. Its a veritable minefield!
    however I dont doubt if you know where to look, some companies will provide affordable quality, some garbage, much the same as anything chinese, or anything from anywhere else tbh
     
  5. jas

    jas Registered

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    etude de sel.jpg
    You can use this as a general guide. It is professional laboratory analysis of popular brands done last year. I know its French, but the chemical abbreviations for the elements are the same in English.
    Variable as in one batch has impurities that cause the batch to be rejected. Another batch of the same chemical is acceptable. Good,bad,good,bad...etc.... That's what I find with pharma chemicals from China. No doubt salts, food and other touchy items arrive with similar lack of quality control.
     
  6. iostiogic

    iostiogic Registered

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    I have some coa's for bt salt somewhere , ill dig them out so you can compare .
     
  7. Eyore

    Eyore Guest

    thanks jas

    I am wondering a few things

    (a) some of the amounts stated above as "nsw" seem some way off?
    What is Seawater? by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
    rhf assures me all amounts are correct

    for instance cobalt is 6ng/l or 0.006 ug/l (rhf) and above it is 0.4 ug/l, manganese 0.165 v 0.4, iron 0.140 v 3.4 . Many of the minor traces at between 1ng/l and 1ug/l seem to be a disparity. Thoughts?
    (b) I am assuming that the tropic marin us not tmpr? I have seen results for tmpr and other synthetic salts conducted on triton icp so I attach them
    View attachment 115931

    interesting to have a fuller list including evapourated

    (c) I assume then each batch of chinese salt is tested I assume by icp of some type? I suppose my question is- is it not within specification?? (which to me would be very poor) or us it falling below typical? I suppose for you to reject its got to be the former. very bad

    interesting with the natural salts above, with any salt there is contaminant. if a contaminant is present at 1ppm or mg/kg and it makes up 70% of a salt mix, very roughly it should yeild saltwater of around 25 ug/l of that contaminent. So no salt mix should be clean. Surprising though that the natural salts contain these also given there biggest part is evapourated not mined
    the company getting the purest most consistent supply of nacl should produce the best salts (assuming the rest is not garbage)
     
  8. jas

    jas Registered

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    The important values are the ones from the analysis. The NSW and color codes were added by the chemist himself, that I believe got the info from a marine biology source. So, just use the actual test results as a reference.
     
  9. Eyore

    Eyore Guest

    yes, takes a bit more reading, the purple and red make it really hard to read

    I suppose my point is nearly all salts above in nearly all regards with some of the more predominant minor traces (the things a lot of people know are present), ie manganese, iron ,zinc, cobalt, copper, lead , mercury, selenium etc etc etc are far higher than nsw.
    they are also inconsistent across salts, leading me to conclude that its quite probable for salts themselves to be less than consistent even in a bucket never mind a batch.

    in itself it begs a lot of questions -

    in essense is chemical perfection totally overestimated? or indeed underestimated?
     
  10. Clearwater

    Clearwater Registered

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    Think Jas is using a combo of salts for his mix
     
  11. iostiogic

    iostiogic Registered

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    View attachment 115942
    from bt manufacturer if of any use to anyone .

    Nige, in regards to your question about chemical perfection I think it would near on impossible to attain but does lead onto some good questions ie. what reference - the red sea? andaman ? what depth ? etc.
    I think making a salt mix with the major elements as they should be and then tweaking the minor and traces as you like would be a better ideal .

    malc
     
  12. jas

    jas Registered

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    Your right, the mixes are inconsistent from batch to batch and even in the same tub. However, that was one set of analysis. My buddy did a bunch of these same mixes over a few months with different batches. One thing we did find is brands are consistently higher or lower in particular elements. The exact value changes but if for example X salt was low in Sr.....it showed that over 3-4 different tests from different batches. Our initial goal was to take the compiled data and mix salts to achieve the closest salt to NSW. We can't, not unless we start from scratch. I do, as Gary mentioned mix 80% Instant Ocean to 20% H2Ocean, this for the lack of bad metals in IO and the good levels of Mg and other desired elements in H2O.
    It works fine for me.
    IMG_20140712_153758~2.jpg
     
  13. jas

    jas Registered

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    I'm not convinced those NSW are from a tropical reef. The literature I have found from Randy Holmes-Farley and associate reef tank experts show different levels. If they are correct, Sr is more like 8ppm, Ca 390-410ppm, Mg 1270ppm, Alk is 6.8-7.2...where did 9 dkh come from? Anyways before attempting mimicking NSW, we need to confirm its values on a tropical reef.
     
  14. Clearwater

    Clearwater Registered

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    I believe Ehsan who is behind TRITON
    Has just been out to Indonesia taking water samples

    At a reef meeting at Cockfields

    There were readings from Bali

    Ca 390
    DKH 6.9
    Mg 1310

    From
    Memory

    The salt producers would like is to purchase the more profitable enriched salt

    Yet there is no real evidence it's better, only anecdotal

    It's a very interesting topic

    TRITON say

    Ca 440
    dKH 8
    Mg 1350
    K 400
    Sr 8
    I 6

    So only slightly elevated

    I do know dKH 7 gives better colours in SPS
     
  15. Eyore

    Eyore Guest

    I like this thread!

    one thing I have always wondered on the triton set points (no point me asking ehsan he wont tell me)

    are they there because that is the matrix? or
    ate they there because that is a plausable average?

    for exsample I cannot believe that the ca is set to be at that level, I can though believe it to be a plausable average given that most people will accumulate ca. For classic less in the matrix would be better imho
    I can though believe magnesium is set at that level, so that some magnesium depletion is acceptable without the need for dosing.

    I suppose I mean that ehsans set points dont actually have to mean that these are the levels he believes are best.
    It could just be acceptable mid points once all things are considered
     
  16. Clearwater

    Clearwater Registered

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    The TRITON levels are higher than NSW
    Zeo work on lower values more like NSW

    My own thoughts are Stability is rather more important than numbers

    A scientific paper I was reading on the GBR said salinity is 34 to 38 point depending on season and location
    Lower values at the southern end

    What would this so for Ca Mg dKH etc ?
     
  17. jas

    jas Registered

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    My Ca is only 410 and Alk is 7.5. I agree with Triton, when I had higher levels sps did not look as good.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  18. Eyore

    Eyore Guest

    my point is though that those set points do not have to be the levels it produces

    for exsample would you buffer up your ca from 400 to 440?

    for me personally I think there is value to trying to keep all the metals at nsw, for calcium I prefer a little less even @ 385/390

    straying here though

    I would certainly like to see a lot more results on icp on differant batches of salts, even a top of bucket vs bottom of bucket, and much more salt makes than i seen

    in some regards the tests we seen show nearly all salt, to varying degrees to be frankly not a lot like seawater at all!
    by the same context it shows that to a large degree we arent too bad and never have been at looking after animals from the sea, in something not really like seawater!

    so regarding the chinese stuff, you can be sure it will be inconsistent, it wont be exsactly seawater. But will it matter?

    edit- I assumed this stuff was mined nacl, it appears not, not evaporated seawater either, but brine.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2014
  19. jas

    jas Registered

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    The danger of keeping Ca and other important elements at the low end of acceptable is test kit accuracy. We have seen RSpro Ca kit indicate 440 ppm and ICP says 400ppm. So if your hobby kit says 390ppm and your actually at 350, sps will rtn. We have seen this reaction from low Ca.
     
  20. damo666

    damo666 Registered

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    Read all the above, and one simple question springs to mind putting everything else aside. What salt have you been using and what prompts you towards changing it?
     
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